choices with our money in the past. spend a little too much on shuls -- shos, but the kids to much of the holidays. you work hard and have the right to spend your money any way you choose, but don't waste it. spend a thoand dollars to get $400 worth of coffee? come on. if you have money to throw way to my have been addressed in s.i. you c send it to. that's it for tonight on "the willis report." thank you for joining us. have a great night. see you tomorrow. ♪ lou: good evening, everybody. i'm lou dobbs. you're looking at union members and supporters of organized labor who gathered oday at the state capitol in lansing, mich. demonstrating against the passage of this historic workers' rights legislation, legislation that, tonight, is

law. you would not know it watching the boisterouunion protests, but unions are left intact by this new law. as is, the right to collective bargaining. the big victory for worker rights today, the elimination of the power of both public and private nions to demand and a worse dues from workers and the end of union power to force workers to pay what have been mandatory dues. michigan becomes the 24th state to enact right to work laws after legislation passed the state house of representaves and was sent on to governor rick snyder for his signature. protesters of this new law number some 10,000 at today's demonstrations. most league made up of uaw union of the workers, machinists, teachers, sometimes angry crowds that seem to be taking cues frm their democratic leaders. one group described by those on the ground as a mob chanting and

gohome while tearing down a conservative activist group tent. a member of that mob scene right here. this as protesters are heard in the background treatening the police with violence. here he is trying to plead with pro union protesters to be less physical, lot less. >> already destroyed onetent. leavitt's and alone. >> get out of my face. >> don't teardown that tend. >> get out of my face. i didn't hurt nobody. get outta my ace. get at my face. lou: one state legislator before the bout had been taken declared there would be blood, repercussions, as you saw there. some protesters got more than just a little physical. democratic state reprentative

said i right to work legislation were to be passed, there will be blood on the streets. the michigan democratic party not to be outdone, we will relive the battle of the overpass, referencing a 1937 incident in which labor leaders clashed with a ford motor company in will become a bloody dispute that resulted in some brutal beatings. when united auto union workers bluntly said it will create a civil war. the white house apparently no understanding the meaning of most of what folks would consider a plan spoken english. here is white house press secretary jay carney declined to disavow such language. >> the president believes in, you know, debate that, you know, is simple. i have not seen those comments and not sure that they mean what some would interpret them to me. you're the president talk about his views. he has always opposed a

so-called right to work law. ey are generally political and not economic. more about the right to our less pay. lou: what does the administration think a democratic lawmar means when he says, there will be blood? meanwhile, the michgan legislature gave final approval earlier in the day, sent the legislation on to republican governor rick snyder her just moments ag signed into law in the building, by the way, named after former republican presidential candidate mitt romney's bother, former governor of michigan, george romney. our first guest tonight here to talk about whether blood will be spilled over michigan becoming a right to work state. joining us now, manhattan institute's senior fllow, the president of the national right to work defense foundaton. welcome to yu both. let me begin with you. twenty-four states now right to work. the governor, the outgoing governor f new hampshire not vetoing. that would have been 2.

that is an impressive, if you will, said of progress to markair. isn't it? >> that's right. this is exciting. with indiana's passage of the 23rd right to work on february 1st in michigan passe, it has been a good year, and it's important to battle. your description of it was spot on this is about ending compulsory dues payments to union officials. that's it. lou: and listening to the president yesterday, your thought there were trying to tear down collective bargaining to end the right to organize a union. i mean, the hyperbolic language was extraordinary. >> considering that the union movement, $400 million to help them get elected, what would you expect? it's the same thing we saw in wisconsin. actually -- and this has played out in the media. lou: you asked me aquestion. i'm going to answer it.

what would always expect is to be definitive, plain spoken, and clear. say what he means to me what he says. is that too much? >> he wants to believe that this really will do things like cut wages. whereas will we have seen in states that are right to work state is, we have seen those states actually be places where people migrating to, businesses are migrating to, places where you see economic growth. but the president is heavily supported by the union movement, and so is the democratic party washington. lou: the bureau of economic analysisfollowing up shows the average value of federal and private-sector benefit packages, federal workers enjoying average benefits of $42,000 compared to average benefits in the private sector of $10,000. we are looking at pay according to a cato institute that puts

the average pay of a government worker at $84,000 per year. that's 32,000 more dollars than the average pay in the private sector i mean, these numbers are starting to be overwhelming ad certainly have to be part of what is, if you will, and more positive response to these right to work issues and votes that we are seeing across the country. >> i think that's right. and it steves group, the manhattan institute, has an extra very worth pointing at the differences, but you're right. taxpayers a beginning to realize this monopoly power that unions have over government which is the new frontier for them what the final frontier is really causing a rift between the rank-and-file workers in the ivate sector who have to pay these taxes for increased government and the rank-and-file workers in the public sector that are enjoying these benefits. it can't go on, and that was the battle in wisconsin, part of the baatle in michigan.

lou: you cited a 2010 study in which you talk about the population growth of the right to work states. we are watching union states, usually high tax states. we are watching and the migration from those states. >> quite exraordinary. about 28 percent of the population lives in right to work states. by 2008 it was a 40%. it's now 3%, and it michigan becomes right to work, that mean 46 percent of the population. if you had population growth in places like texas and florida in coming years we could be at 50% or higher, meaning more than half of the population of the countryill live in right to work state within a couple of years. that is a dramatic change. lou: we will see a trong contest through 2013, i'm sure. let me ask you this, how many

more states to you expect to ad if any, next year? >> i would say 26, but that may take awhile. next year -- you know, this is a really interesting development in the movement. from michigan to pass a right to work law opens the door for any state to conider it. there are certainly states like missouri that have been talking abt a for a long time, states like kentucky, montana, new hampshire. i think this idea of passing a right to work law in michigan will open te eyes of many more people and policy makers commanded think it will see the benefits and see the union rhetoric about what it does is just not true. it will see what indiana is seeing, 47,000 new ivate-sector jobs. it will see what oklahoma as experience, d right to wo will be the law of the land. lou: some estimate on ho many states will be right to work states next year? >> we are working on 26. lou: very well. do you want to name it? >> kentucky and missour are states that are having growing debate about it. so there are some that are

actually active right now. lou: you have some time here as the year winds down to solidify your support and to get moving. congratulations on michigan. thank you both for being here. appreciated. >> thank you. lou: the government class, those who depend on government for entitlements, welfare, and jobs, that is local, state, and federal workers, those folks are growing in number every year. close to 50 million people on food stamps in this country right now under the obama administraon. the food stamp participation rate has risen by more than million people. every single month of this year additional members, folks moving on to the roles of food stamps. it has become more expensive to run as well. in 2000 the food stamp program cost just under $1000 per person. today the number has soared to $1,700 a person, 68 percent

increase, double the rate of flation. poverty rates continued arise. housing and urbaban development estimating there were 250-350000 people homeless on a typical night backat the end of 1983. this compares with an estimated 636,000 homeless at the end of last year going into the fourth year of the president's presidency. just think of all this expansion, all of the spending, the federal government over the course of almost three decades. it's what president ronald reagan promised to take on and rivers more than three decades ago. >> we are a nation that has the government cannot the other way around. and this makes as special among the nations of europe. our government has no power, expt that granted it by the people. it is time to check and reverse the growth of govenment, which

shows signs of having grown beyond the consent of the governed. it is my intention to curb the size and influence of the federal establishment and to demand recognition of the distinction between the powers granted to the federal government and those reserves to the states or to the people. [applause] lou: reagan's original february 1981 plan proposed in that speech, enough cuts to bring spending down to 19 percentnt of gdp by 1984 ando balance the budget. the federal government started the 2013 budget year with a $292 billion deficit in the first two months. the nation not exactly on incorrect path to what was the reagan vision three decades ago. >> this is what democracy looks like.

lou: a union demonstration turned violent. michig state pro worker law cutting in to union dues. unions don't like it. one of their state legislativ supporters says, there will be blood. we will show you why the unions are so angry in tonight's "chalk talk." demonstrations swell in egypt. atrocities mounted in syia. afghani troops are woefully unprepared. national security experts clifford may and frank gaffney to assess the obama foreign-policy next. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪

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♪ lou: defense secretary leon panetta says syria has gotten the message to back off the

possible use of chemical weapons, but the obama mideast policy is evolving quickly. national security experts joining us to give us their action here in just moments. first, and tonight's "moneyline," the dow jones industrial wenner, the fifth straight for the dow over the past five days, the longest winning streak since back in mid march. a7-day run. news of possible movements in the fiscal put negotiations can read life into the markets tomorrow. fox news confirming president obama and the house speaker did talk on the phone today and traded proposals. advisers to the presidency the two sides are making progress. as with a market, stocks finied well off of flies, but still up solidly. the dow up 79 points, s&p nine, nasdaq 35. all three indexes moving above their 50 day moving averages for the first time in three months. volume picking up on the big board. three and a half billion shares traded. technology, the principal driver in the market.

microsoft up on news it is upn production of its surface table, service tablet to better compete with appe, on a bullish report from merrill lynch about the growth of the smart phone and ipad markets. aig stock up on news the government sold the remaining common shares it holds. the sale means taxpayers realize the profit of $22 billion on the iginal bailout of 1,802,000,000,000. prices in the bond market down, pushing the yield on the treasury ten year to 165%. crude oil up. the price of a barrel of oil still under $86. the federal reserve and its today meeting on monetary policy and interest rates today. speculation is the central bank will announce the fed will continue to spend about $45 billion per month buying treasurys to keep interest rates low. egypt's government asking the international monetary fund to postpone the countries request for a almost $5 billion loan as

thousands of protesters took to the streets in cairo again today in trrier scared to come to rear square. masked gunmen fired on protesters. at least nine people were wounded. joining us now, president of the foundation for the defense of democracies, clifford make a mock bank -- frank gaffney, founder and president for the center for security policy. let me start, cliff, if i may, with you. what is going on with president more see in egypt. to what degree can we rely on him as a friend in the region. your assessment? >> i think he has made a strategic retreat, but not enough. i think he is planning to use the draft constitution to give himself the power to my was a dictatorial powers that. lou. i think we have to be very careful. i don't think it's likely that a muslim brotherhood president of egypt is going to participate in a pluralistic democracy. we have sen muslim brotherhood

figures come to power through the ballot box. they're happy to do tat. we have yet to see one leave power through the ballot box. until we do, it's only a theory that can happen. lou: importantly, we have seen is the president remain with -- and the muslim brotherhood remain with their pledge of recognition to israel to leave it intact. >> what they recognize, if i may, is only that the peace treaty, but what are really the options? if you were to send the military to attack israel, first of all, they migt not go. if they did it would grow to come back defeated and humiliated. he was helpful in terms of the cease-fire, but i'm not sure he had a lot of other good options. he told them, just keep on firing missiles until all hell breaks loose, all hell would have broken loose. the israelis would have come in on the ground. i would not give him too much credit. >> a think he's exactly right. what we're watching is a sophisticated political operation engaging in tactical

adjustments. you know -- lou: i get the feeling we're not describing the obama administration. >> have not been so many tactical adjustments on the part of the obama administration. what we are seeing is at least one step backwards for every to step forward the obama administration seems to be mostly in full ford motor here's the thing. when you are talking about what they're doing these of the protesters and accommodating their concerns, but when you talk of what they're doing with this peace agreement with israel, when you talk about what they're doing with respect to cease-fires and a mosque, this is all temporary. it will not, i believe, be the long-term policy of the muslim brotherhood because they are committed to war against us. i mean, we have that from their own documents. the destruction of this country,

western civilization. it sounds crazy, but that is their strategy. we are clear that they are dead set against israel. their franchise seek the deruction of israel. and these are simply adjustments on the road to that long term set of goals. lou: us talk about a couple of quick adjustments, some adjustments, quickly, if we may. let me turn to you first. twenty f-16s to be sent to egypt . some considerable concern bing expressed now in washington d.c. you're about -- your thoughts? >> i cannot possibly see what good can come of sending f-16s and tanks to egypt. i don't think-- i don't understand it. it should be held back. what used to they have, especially in a time when the troops of been ordered to arrest civilians? it just doesn't make any sense to me. lou: the former national director of intelligence, and director of national intellence saying here last night that he thinks it's important because its engagement

, and engagement is positive in and of itself. your thoughts? >>ngagement with people who seek, i agan, destruction is not positive. especially when it's not just engagement callaloo. this is legitimization. this is in richmond. we are now being told this is going to be charming. certainly empower and probably involving these guys, and no good can come on that. it's folly, and i think we're seeing in libya and egypt and tunisia and yemen, probably ria. lou: 15 seconds. very quickly. we just received word that the president is recognizing that syrian opposition coalition and opposition to the regime. a positive element. >> again coming days now with the wrong guys is seems to me. lou: thank you very much. i'm sorry. absolutely out of time. we thank you for being with us. clifford may and frank gaffney. thank you both. up next, the union uproar in

michigan having little to do with worker or their rights to organize. it will take up with the unions really lose, why it is their lifeblood in tonight's "chalk talk." the liberal mainstream media teaming up against george solomon, the "washington post" with a questionable defense of nbc's objectionable editing. attorneys join us here next. from the bt players in history to the number 1 club in the world. the potential of manchester united unlocked. nyse euronext. unlocking the world's potential.

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lou: when president obama was at a detroit auto factory yesterday he blasted right-to-work laws saying they had nothing to do with economics and everything to do with politics, i believe it is it all about money, and politics. here is something you may not have known about the state of michigan. 17.95% of that state's workforce belongs to a union, that is fifth highest rate of union organization in a country in

maybe, despite the president's misleading suggestions, to the cop rare, michigan -- contrary, michiganorkers still have the right to join and form a union, they have the right to bargain, collectively. and what this law changes is forced union membership, i repeat, forced union membership. so why is the president, and why are the unions so upset? in this case, it is about the money. specifically union dues, less money, mea less political power, this is the offset to the right to work, the right to power, and the unions think that is their right. other states like idaho and oklahoma pass right-to-work laws their union dues paying membership, those unions, dues pay membership fell by 15%.

down 15%. if that happens in michigan, the heritage foundation has come up with estimate to how much the unions in michigan would lose. that number is over $46 million a year in dues. michigan, just one state. nationwide, we're not talking about public employee unions yet. let's do so, nationwide government employee unions collect, are you ready for this number? that is taxpayer money, going in the form of wes to the government class, if you will, public employees receiving and paying $14 billion in dues alone. that is what is at stake here. this is not just about money, it

is not just about politics, it is about both. the right to power sought by organized labor. where does that money go? i have to tell you it goes straight to the president's party, the democratic party, during this election cycle, public system or unions and their afilliated packs gave of their millions and millions of dollars to the democrats, the demes received from those unions, think about this one. 93% went to the democratic party. 93%. notopoly that, unions made up a large part of the democratic ground both o operation on all , local, state and federal, and quite a ground operation it was, so the presint was half right, this is all about politics, but he is also wrong it is about

money as well. big money, and power. lou: the fiscal cliff looks bleak, no news, no deal, no urgency. >> the american people have to be scratching their heads, and wondering when is this president gointo get serious. lou: obama is serious about his ultimatum and demands to raise taxes, boehner said no new taxes, obama can have his tantrum, the a-team weighs in. >> and president's job czar has a healthy respect for government efficiency, at least in china, ge's ceo's stunning analysis of the communist economic and political system. record finds for wall street's money laundering bank of record, mexican drug cartels, middle east terrorists, african dictators all among hsbc's clientele, and no one is going to jail? why not?

legal experts join us here next

>> british banking giant, hsbc agreed to pay a record dollars 1.9 billion to settle allegations it landerred money from mexican drug lords, and sanctions transactions from iran illegally. lenny brewer said that the scale of hsbc's operation was stunning. >> at least one occasion, hsbc instructed a bank in iran on how to format payment messages so that transactions would not be blocked or rejected by the united states. lou: brewer however also defended the decision to not prosecute the bank, he said.

if authorities pressed charges hsbc would almost certainly have lost its banks license here in this country which would have cost thousands of jobs, joining us now to assess this, and more, former prosecutor alease wheel, and artie idala . is -- where is the outrage that lenny brewer, already -- certainly implicated in the "fast and furious" scandal is standing there, as spokesman u.s. justice department saying they are not going to prosecute. >> you set it up not fair, you did not say, deferred prosecution. lou: i'm sorry who is going to jail. i want to get this right. >> not yet, but if they don't pay the money, if they don't -- they have 5 years of probation, at this point, so,. lou: you are right. >> brewer and the rest of the crew --

>> lisa i'm crushed. >> here is reality check. standing behind him, is loretta lynch. that is where real people get prosecuted. you take this same scenario, you take all those zeros, and make it 19,000-dollars to a guy who owns a restaurant, that guy is going to jail as sure as i'm bald, this is too big to fail. lou: i'm getting worried, a sense of fairness, is arthur being fair. >> he is, i am trying to do the best i can to argue this. lou: the government does not need an advocate, they are using power irresponsibly, and against the national interest, what do you with drug cartels, --

>> that already happened now at least government gets -- it is a deferred. lou: what crime has not already considered. >> if they stumped and said that is it we're dismissing this case. than that something, but now it is deferred prosecution. >> that is garbage. it is a dream come true, lou, every time i go in there with a client, i am asking f for deferd prosecution, that is what i want as a criminal defense attorney. lou: what is that ex preg, justice -- expression, justice delays is justice denied. >> they would rather put that money back in our treasury than fire those people. >> i am fair. to go ahead with prosecution, and case, and try to pull the

witnesses together, you stand the chance of losing. >> a 90% conviction rate. >> that is 10% still. you have no money then. lou: to george zimmerman, the picture that emerged of zimmerman, bloodied face. do we have that? please? i'm told we do, it is just. >> a color photo, there you go. >> denied today. by the judge, the ability to be free of his shackle. what is going on? why is this case -- it seems there is a real matc nasty turnn the part of the judge in the case toward this defendant. >> judges do not like when you lie to them, during the bail procedure, they were caught in a bold-faced lie, he and his wife, multiple times, that is common sense, you do not lie to the

judge. lou: his attorney had to know. >> the whole thing with the trust, ands defense fund, we only have x amount of dollars in the bank. >> the prosecution is not clean-handed either, the fact that color photo is now just coming out. it is the same photo, but the prosecutor gave over a black and white photo, not the color photo. >> there is no rules of evidence, at this point i have to give up a black and white. >> let's be fair to defense, i can't believe i am on the other side of you. lou: you belong you are in a social justice department. let's be just, i is it pure politics this man is sitting in florida under charge of attempted murder? >> not really, it is going to come down to stand your ground

hearing, that is legal ground. >> if there is anssue that needs to be debated, that is why it is so far in the forefront. do we want to live in a society where people walk around with guns it is easier to get a gun in some states than it is to adopt a dog at the spca . you have to call this person, and -- >> you are co condifferent issu, one is handling a gun, and the other is a contusional right. >> they are somewhat intertwined. you should be able to know and when to use it. lou: you attorneys. >> correct. that is what we get big bucks for. >> this is t "stand your ground" law. lou: thank you very much. >> thank you. lou: up next, one of the

president's top advisors making a down right scary admission about economics that would make, well, lennon proud. and tomorrow, house affairs member, and formerlinton add or doug schoan, tomorrow, please be with us. next hero night, speaker boehner and their presidential trade fiscal cliff proposals and phone calls. the a-team sorting it out next, the a-team sorting it out next, and the

♪ music

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lou: general electric ceo jeffrey immelt said that -- is good for china, here he is on bloomberg tv. >> but, their government works. you know they get things done, they have 5 year plans, i tell

our team, read the 12-5 year plan, the segment we're in what they are doing makes since in the chinese context. lou: remind you, immelt is president of the president's job council. new governmt data suggests that a massive exodus from high tax state of california. california lost 100,000 more residents than it gained last year, more going to more business-friendly. business-friendly, states like texas. and california public employees have highest salaries in the 12 most populous state, earning on average $60,000 a year. >> major victory for gun rights

advocates, a court struck down a ba on carryg weapons in the state of illinois, they rule that ban is unconstitutional. >> former nfl commissioner paul tag leah buhas overturned the saints suspension. he found three of the four engaged in conduct but said that the coaches and front office are to blame. for what he called the cash for hits program. >> up next, president yet rallying union troops again right to work legislation that is tonight, law, some michigan students today suffering the consequences, the a-team coming

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lou: joining us now the a-team. john fundd. and boston democratic strategist marianne marsh, we start with president delivering a long awaited proposal today, that was rejected by boehner, as we understand, only change was reducing total taxes from 1.6 to 1.4. speaker boehner is not cooperating and telling us what was in it. >> i tnk until speaker boehner and the republicans agree to

raise taxes on wealthiest folks there will be no deal, it will be a high stakes game of chicken during a lame duck session of congress, no other deals will get cut. >> john? >> the president campaigned on a balanced approach. a year or so ago, president was talking about 700 billion in taxes, now he doubled it a balanced approach, negotiation would mean you put both taxes and spending on the table. and specify, president is doing neither. this is a game of chicken, which i think is designed to go over the fiscal cliff, and pin the blame on the republins, i understand why the president is doing it for political reasons but i don't think that the republicans have to surrender themselves in this game of chicken. lou: it seems the ultimatum, raise taxes on top 2%, why not let him eat to, it is his

decision, go for it, if you don't want a mature, and intelligence, and responsible negotiation, you do not know who you are dealing with, it is called a constitutional bodyf government. >> it is john's right, this is politics, hard and fast, 1995 all over again, skes are high and and president wants house back, pin the blame on the republicans make them look like right wing lunatics and grab the chips, they aren a no-win position. lou: we'll be back, marianne has to weigh in and a bunch more as we continue with the a team stay with us.

lou: we're back with the a-team, marianne, senator reid said he is dubious there would be a deal

reached? >> now that everyone is talking about it everyone is more pessimistic. >> no deal? >> i think we get a deal, but not christmas. >> i think that senate has been one thing well the last 4 years, nothing. we have not had a budget in three years. never had a budget. i think the senate democrats and president obama, want us to go over the fiscal cliff, they get a bunch of revenue, and return in dribs and drabs on the american middle class, they keep the majority of revenue, spending cuts can be finessed. lou: we looked at total spending under boehner plan and as we understand them obama plan, and no plan, they end ought about the -- end at about the same place in 2022. this is madness. >> the obama drama that is

surrounding this negotiation. over an inconsequential increase of a tax over 2%, and no affect, across 10 years of national debt that is madness. >> this is nuts, it is unnecessary, but this is politics, it has nothing to do with policy. lou: and who is the beneficiary of that? >> well, look, president obama ran on this he was elected with a margin that is substantial enough to warrant this public opinion supports him, public opinion supports his position, and public opinion will support obama over the republicans if we go over the cliff, he will go over the cliff rather than take a bad deal. and making sure that tax rates on wealthiest go up is a big part of that deal. >> he ran on half of tax increases proposing, he ran on a planned approach, i'm sorry this is politics, and he should admit

it. lou: another thing that bears admission that this president saying it was not about economics, to have that right to work law go into effect in michigan, he said it was about politics, i tried to demonstrate how it is both and about power, right-to-work looks to be a very serious challenge to democratic power, with 24 right-to-work states. >> absolutely. a big nasda challenge. where does the money come from if you don't have unions giving it to you. >> indiana, gained 14,000 manufacturing jobs, this is politics, it also about getting jobs back, otherwise -- -- lou: we'll have to leave it there thank you very much. >> thank